CROSSFIT or CROSS-SHIT?

Guys, please share your feelings, thoughts, ideas, love or hate about the hottest training or should I say exercise craze in the Philippines since Zumba... CROSSFIT:clean:

Let me give you my thoughts first about it before everyone hits the neg button haha. I've tried Crossfit before, I incorporated the concept of it in my training but the so called "WOD" that I do, are personalized and I must say BENEFICIAL for my goals. Coming from a bodybuilding background, my main concern of course is my physique that's why my WODs usually look more like a giant set or a bodybuilding circuit..with a twist!

My Favorite WOD (2011)
210lbs BP x 15
210lbs Squat x 15
270lbs DL x 15
20-30 seconds Sprints or stationary bike sprints

FYI: I've never heard of Crossfit until early 2013 but I've been applying the concept long before

Unlike the typical Crossfit WOD (which is never the same every WO) my WODs are the same and I only change them every 6-8 weeks. Most say that, well that's not Crossfit, it's still bodybuilding... Say wut? What is Crossfit anyway?

As per Wiki: "CrossFit workouts incorporate elements from high-intensity interval training, Olympic weightlifting, plyometrics, powerlifting, gymnastics, girevoy sport, calisthenics, strongman and other exercises."

I dont see bodybuilding in the list but for a physique guy like me, I could use some new methods to improve so applying crossfit type WO's would hopefully help. My goals are clear, I want to build a MUSCULAR, AESTHETIC and SUPER STRONG physique. . So I have to cut the shit out and focus only on the aspects of Crossfit which will make me M.A.S.S. I have to point out that I have been training for years before I came across this concept, so I'm not a noob when it comes to intensity and getting wasted. My foundations are carved deep, discpline, form, strength, size, training instincts, habits... it's pretty much just polishing to improve. To be honest it really helped me get to my desired "look" but to describe how it contributed to my end results, I'd say my WODs are "muscle sparring cardio" nothing more

Now, being an experienced lifter. I don't just try things out and see (hope?) if it will work. This is where I get my mix emotions on Crossfit as a "program". You see, as we improve, things get complicated. What worked before might not work next year. We keep tweaking our strategies as we get bigger and stronger and more fragile. My question now is how would Crossfit make me M.A.S.S if it doesn't have a clear emphasis on hypertrophy, strength, speed, performance and nutrition. For a guy like me, I could get away with doing crossfit and get astray from my goals because I already have built something, But for a clueless noob who embraces Crossfit as the "THE" program to get to his dream physique? I dont think so... how about crossfit to get 2x BW Deadlift or Squat? how about crossfit for a big chest and delts? Dunk a basketball? killer submission skills and ground & pound? 30inch vertical?

As much as I'm thankful for the results I got in the past from applying the WODs, today is a different scenario. I'm bigger, stronger and more susceptible to injuries. The only way to maintain my physique and strength is thru progression. Progression keeps the harmony between aesthetics and strength, it goes hand in hand most of the time. That's what crossfit is missing PROGRESSION. Most people think that getting wasted and tired are the best measure for hard work and will eventually lead to better gains than those who train less.

Lets look at some sample WOD from a crossfit website

DAY 1
3 rounds for time of:
Run 800 meters
50 back extensions
50 sit-ups

DAY 2
Complete as many rounds as possible in 15 minutes of:
Row 15 calories
10 box jumps, 30-inch box
185-lb. push jerks, 5 reps

DAY 3
Thruster / push press / push jerk / split jerk 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps
A thruster followed by a push press followed by a push jerk followed by a split jerk without dropping the bar is one rep.

DAY 4
3 rounds for time of:
Run 800 meters
50 back extensions
50 sit-ups

DAY 5
21-18-15-12-9-6-3 reps for time of:
115-lb. power cleans
One-legged squats, right leg
One-legged squats, left leg

I understand that we have "different" goals. I have a different goal too, but it would be ridiculous to deny that we are not after muscles, yes? yes?... more yes? we all have a physique in mind that we want to achieve and a decent amount of strength that we can brag about on FB and IG (oh I mean strength applicable to real life situations). Personally, I dont know how the exercise above would lead me if I will be doing random exercises every WO, every week, month after month. As I said, my WODs before are not random and well planned out that's why I was able to keep track of my progress. Helped me preserve my mass during a cut. But that's me!

For those who have clear and defined goals, what do you think?

CROSSFIT to be:
Muscular?
Aesthetic?
Strong?

CROSSFIT or CROSS-SHIT? cheers

http://nattyornot.com/real-reasons-crossfit-sucks/
http://www.t-nation.com/training/truth-about-crossfit
http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly
http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-and-functional-training
http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfitters-arent-athletes
http://www.t-nation.com/training/bodybuilder-goes-crossfit

live&dieNATURAL

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Comments

  • OhsnapOhsnap Posts: 425
    For me I considered crossfit as a "game/challenge", not a workout. I do cross training of course and for what goal? Strength, endurance, physique, and of course to win. Problem is most guys thought crossfit as zumba, and everyday they do some crazy wods. But for me, I do strengthening and conditioning programs not "crossfit". As per goal we set, we must also set our plan/phase. I do challenges of crossfit when I'm in my Sport specific phase (preparation to compete). (If oly lifting, of course my sports specific phase will be also about PR's in lifting and so on like marathon, cycling, etc.) :)And for those who has concern or/and violent reactions feel free to comment. I'll not defend crossfit nor contradict it. I'll try to help you to understand lol
  • Personally I dont get the animosity against crossfit. It's just these big boys getting all worked up about this new(ish) fitness craze that's getting popular. Honestly, do that shit in the gym, I dont care, just dont drop your bumper plates on my goddamn feet LOL. It's just this whole concept of being "hardcore". The old guard, or maybe fitness hipsters believe that these new people becoming fit and shit are somehow trespassing on their turf. Come on guys, dont be the large dude in the gym scowling at all the newbies come january and intimidating them to go away. Go do your shit, they do theirs, and we'll all be one happy fitness family.

    Ok, rant over. In terms of the training methodology I do it once in a while. Program my on shit tho, so it suits my needs. If any of you want to try a WOD i'd recommend something like this: BP/ Squat/ Pull Up/ Deadlift, every bar loaded to body weight (except pull ups, that's my rest set lol) , then do 10-9-8...3-2-1 set of each. This is my go to workout when I'm feeling shitty in between macrocycles
  • riddlerriddler Posts: 1,018B-Class
    I have to agree with @BroScience and @Ohsnap

    It's just another way of getting fit and challenging yourself, setting aside your physique goals, of course, especially if you really want to build muscles. Whether you like it or not, CrossFit is the newest fitness craze in town and the "mainstream" folks, or rather, "bandwagon" folks will be "in" and raving about it for years to come. Accept it or not too, hardcore "bodybuilding", "powerlifting", etc etc are just a minority compared to the general populace. It's a niche. Ordinary folks will usually go the "mainstream" route over the "niche" route. That's a fact. And no, rant and bashing will change that. There is nothing you can do to stop the CrossFit craze.

    And as @BroScience said, as long as they don't hurt you literally, why should you even care? Don't take it to yourself that you have a moral obligation to tell them that what they are doing is shit. Reminding them that it may not be suitable to their goals or may even do more harm than good is fine, but telling them to stop what they are doing because it is SHIT, just because the big dude on the gym says it, or the fitness guru from a fancy website in the internet proclaims that is SHIT, doesn't mean you also have to say it is SHIT. That's their personal preference, if they enjoy doing it, let them be. I will reiterate again "Different folks, different strokes". Mind your own business. :)

    Yes, before anything else, I would just like to clarify. I am not PRO-CrossFit. I have never done a WOD. In fact, I hate CrossFit. Why? Who cares, it's my personal preference, and no way I will impose that to other people.

    PEACE OUT!
  • OhsnapOhsnap Posts: 425
    Crossfit vs normal training scenario:

    Sample WOD:

    21-15-9reps of superset
    Thruster 135lbs
    BW pull-ups

    What's the difference? This hardcore crossfit guy thinking it's a competition will do everything to finish it on time. Like there's a gun pointed at them and ready to kill them if they did not finish early. So how do they compensate? They'll try the kipping method of gymnastics because the rule of the game is chin above bar "they don't care if it's a strict pull-up. One hand pull-up, or any shit you want, as long as your chin is above the bar!"

    Here's how a normal guy would do, "fuck that kipping that's not pull-ups!". So here's what he'll do. Try to do the reps "slower" because of this hyperthrope thing they called to gain muscle. Doing 1 minute rest every superset. Doing strict pull-ups. Doesn't mind if he finished longer. As long as there's muscle recovery.

    Conclusion:
    this hardcore crossfit guy thinks of winning and finishing early and the second guy thinks of training.
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    :sport: We're having a good start. keep the posts coming guys. Those who posted in the other thread I'm inviting you here :)

    @BroScience I'm waiting for your journal bro, I'll subscribe :)@Riddler and @BroScience

    I can relate bros! when I did Crossfit before, I felt the hate from the big boys in our gym. :arghh:=(

    live&dieNATURAL

  • Ohsnap wrote:

    Conclusion:
    this hardcore crossfit guy thinks of winning and finishing early and the second guy thinks of training.

    I dont think that kind of behavior is limited to crossfit. I see "powerlifters" and "bodybuilders" going above parallel all the time just to haul more eight and overinflate their egos. Unless you are ever going to compete (Which 99% of the population never are) there is no point in scoring points or getting poundages or whatever. These are just arguments about the fitness community in general, being projected into crossfit because it's the new whipping boy in the block. Tell them that they should focus on their form. Don't tell them they should stop crossfit. I get annoyed by bodybuilders who hog dumbells for doing infinite number of lateral/ medial/ fuck if i care raises and I don't say bodybuilding is stupid because of that, it's just not my cup of tea (those exercises that is). So don't hate, appreciate. Rhian Ramos and a couple of other celebrities started doing crossfit, now I have their asses to ogle on instagram all day long lol
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    Okay, so setting aside, the ego, the rants, the hate and all kinds of shit... If someone will ask for an advice/tip, how would you answer:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?

    All kinds of reactions and points of view are always welcome :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • OhsnapOhsnap Posts: 425
    Okay, so setting aside, the ego, the rants, the hate and all kinds of shit... If someone will ask for an advice/tip, how would you answer:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?

    All kinds of reactions and points of view are always welcome :)

    Lol if i'm to answer that, i'll add "winning" haha

    It's like asking :

    Marathon to be:
    Muscular?
    athletic?
    strong?
    winning?
    finishing?

    but it's only IMO. Maybe because i have a different perception of crossfit. hahaThe problem with crossfit challenges: it gets harder and harder. They think of more ridiculous challenge as if like their looking for that ultimate workout that no one can finish it lol.

    The problem with the trainers : Train their trainees to the point of exhaustion disregarding their health and goal for the sake of winning and having a bragging rights that their box trains champions

    The problem with the newbies : doing crossfit challenges try to overtrain just to finish those ridiculous wods without tapering or starting from basic first.

    It's like a freshmen running a 100k marathon vs veterans who already done a 80k marathon. LoL
    BroScience wrote:
    I dont think that kind of behavior is limited to crossfit. I see "powerlifters" and "bodybuilders" going above parallel all the time just to haul more eight and overinflate their egos.

    Ego my friend is a common thing in our world. The maker and the destroyer.

    And one thing, Too much of everything is not good. A concept that applies to all.
  • riddlerriddler Posts: 1,018B-Class
    Okay, so setting aside, the ego, the rants, the hate and all kinds of shit... If someone will ask for an advice/tip, how would you answer:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?

    All kinds of reactions and points of view are always welcome :)

    For ordinary folks, I'd say "none of the above". That's the hard cold truth.

    Yes, you can be muscular, aesthetic and strong with CrossFit, that is, if you belong to the 1% of the general populace who are considered as genetic freaks, and yes, I know what you are thinking, you are right, you don't belong to that group, ROFL. Move along. There are better ways to accomplish those goals.

    So when is CrossFit advisable for the common guy/gal then?
    - Improve Fitness (especially endurance)
    - Fat Loss/Weight Loss
    - Challenge (especially training with a group of enthusiasts or even joining events)
    - Bandwagon (because everybody is doing it, so why can't I? lol)

    That's all I can think at the moment. Feel free to add or object. Haha! :)
  • nrg500nrg500 Posts: 1,235B-Class
    Okay, so setting aside, the ego, the rants, the hate and all kinds of shit... If someone will ask for an advice/tip, how would you answer:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?

    All kinds of reactions and points of view are always welcome :)

    Cross Fit to:

    1. Have a herniated disc thru poor deadlift form
    2. Make as many pull ups as possible using leg drive. It's easier coz it lessens the work on the back and arms
    3. Make as many dips as possible using leg drive. It's easier coz it lessens the work on the chest and arms

    4. To look dumb [video=dailymotion]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20ksfx_how-dumbasses-do-pullups_fun[/video]
  • Okay, so setting aside, the ego, the rants, the hate and all kinds of shit... If someone will ask for an advice/tip, how would you answer:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?

    All kinds of reactions and points of view are always welcome :)

    For me it's fun. I've been lifting for almost a decade, and at first I loved the pain it caused me. You guys know this, it's waking up after the first workout of a long break. It's the oh shit DOMS that makes it almost impossible to get out of bed, but you're smiling like a loon the whole time. After a whille, workouts don't have this aspect anymore. Crossfit has the intensity and variety to make wworkouts interesting. Trust me, thrash a wod with the guys in the gym and dont tell me that it doesnt hurt like hell, but you'll be laughing in between gasps of air at the same time. Most of the problems with crossfit is the training and management. Same with bodybuilding, no organization can be perfect. But in the end I just plain like it, and I dont need justification for that :)
  • OhsnapOhsnap Posts: 425
    nrg500 wrote:

    Cross Fit to:

    1. Have a herniated disc thru poor deadlift form
    2. Make as many pull ups as possible using leg drive. It's easier coz it lessens the work on the back and arms
    3. Make as many dips as possible using leg drive. It's easier coz it lessens the work on the chest and arms
    4. To look dumb

    1. Poor deadlift form is a poor deadlift form. DL'ing wrong in powerlifting, bodybuilding, crossfit can cause herniated disc.

    2. and 3. Yeah it looks dumb. I'm doing it, but for the sake of winning. Why did i join a competition just to use strict pull-ups and dips while my opponents are ridiculously fast with their method?

    I can do strict pull-ups and dips weighted. I can do 20 pull-ups strict, and 40 dips strict. Slower though, but my goal is training at that moment.

    4. it actually looks dumb. LoL
  • nrg500 wrote:
    Cross Fit to:

    1. Have a herniated disc thru poor deadlift form
    2. Make as many pull ups as possible using leg drive. It's easier coz it lessens the work on the back and arms
    3. Make as many dips as possible using leg drive. It's easier coz it lessens the work on the chest and arms

    4. To look dumb [video=dailymotion]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20ksfx_how-dumbasses-do-pullups_fun[/video]

    Don't want to seem like an avid crossfit fan, honestly I rarely do it, but the "sport" interests me, so I'd like to give my two cents on most of its misgivings

    You can search youtube for bodybuilding or powerlifting tips and half of them would be retarded also. Only problem wwith crossfit is they actually endorse this shit lol, the IFBB or any other powerlifting federation can't give any less of a fuck. Anyway, the point here is the goal of the sport. Once you condense a sport it will alays seem retarded. Basketball? 5 black dudes fighting for a ball. Bodybuilding? Posing with a thong. Powerlifting? Lifting heavy shit up for no real reason. People do it because they derive some sort of happiness from it. Basketball players get injured all the time, bodybuilders die from steroid abuse, and also with steroid abuse, powerlifters end up with shitty joints. It's a risk vs reward type thing. You won't tell an MMA fighter to stop fighting because they might get parkinsons or wwhatever, the only reason people give crossfitters shit is because they think they can take them in a fight. All of this is just a big "whos got the biggest dick" contest. Come on we are modern men, we have evolved past this lol.
  • nrg500nrg500 Posts: 1,235B-Class
    Jim Wendler, the author of 531 training


    Greg Glassman, the founder of Cross Fit

    (sorry, can't find a video of him doing heavy lifting.... DYEL)
    greg.jpg
  • OhsnapOhsnap Posts: 425
    nrg500 wrote:
    Jim Wendler, the author of 531 training


    Greg Glassman, the founder of Cross Fit

    (sorry, can't find a video of him doing heavy lifting.... DYEL)
    greg.jpg

    But wendler is not the founder of heavy lifting. It's an acient nature of men that fades because of modernization :)

    and glassman is not a lifter, he's a gymnast :)

    Let's be fair and try to compare wendler with Dmitry Klokov author of "training methods of russian champions" :)
  • nrg500nrg500 Posts: 1,235B-Class
    Ohsnap wrote:
    nrg500 wrote:
    Jim Wendler, the author of 531 training


    Greg Glassman, the founder of Cross Fit

    (sorry, can't find a video of him doing heavy lifting.... DYEL)
    greg.jpg

    But wendler is not the founder of heavy lifting. It's an acient nature of men that fades because of modernization :)

    and glassman is not a lifter, he's a gymnast :)

    Let's be fair and try to compare wendler with Dmitry Klokov author of "training methods of russian champions" :)

    Bro, you didn't get my post :)
  • OhsnapOhsnap Posts: 425
    nrg500 wrote:
    Bro, you didn't get my post :)

    Haha sorry bro. Just enlighten me what's your post is all about. I thought of Lifting comparison
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    Okay, so setting aside, the ego, the rants, the hate and all kinds of shit... If someone will ask for an advice/tip, how would you answer:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?
    Win?

    All kinds of reactions and points of view are always welcome :)

    Alright let's add winning to the list, or probably being competitive for those who compete. I like your example, marathon... the 3k,5k,10k run. People join with different goals in mind (trip lang, health, to socialize, fitness reasons, hobby, sports, and probably 1% came there to win). The questions muscular? , aesthetic? and strong? is for the "common" people. We all know who they are. Let's face it, everywhere we go, even here in PBB, M.A.S.S. is the common goal. Why are we training anyway? So my answer to my question:

    CROSSFIT to be:
    Muscular?
    Aesthetic?
    Strong?
    Win?

    MUSCULAR
    -For new lifters, of course their chances of gaining muscle is huge (whatever lifting style). With Crossfit, they get a hybrid WO wherein various systems in the body are highly involved. Although the exercises are random, WODs usually use whole body exercises so they get the muscular look from hard labor (broad shoulders, forearms and dominant hips). Crossfit is also excellent for weightloss but could be counterproductive for newbies who want to maximum muscle gains.

    -For experienced lifters, Crossfit might work differently. I believe It's not a good way to build muscle due to lack of specialization and emphasis on hypertrophy but what it can do is give your existing frame a more athletic look. As weird as the workouts can be, it might help you target muscle groups/body parts which are not responsive, but a lot of tweaking should be done and pay extra attention to recovery. We don't want to be athletic looking but injured/sick right?

    AESTHETIC
    -This is all about genetics if you're a new lifter. If your a bit chubby, Crossfit may help you lean out and shed fat on problem areas thus making you more aesthetic but it can also make you look flat when you start Crossfit with a very lean body. It's ok to look flat but not to the point of looking like you don't even lift.

    -Genetics still plays a big role even for those who have built their bodies over the years. However, to have a balanced physique equal attention must be given to every body part and some extra attention to the lagging ones. This is what Crossfit is missing, attention to detail. Physique may not be purpose of Crossfit but for those who are doing Crossfit and are closet bodybuilders too, It would be best to do hypertrophy WODs. This way you can enjoy Crossfit and at the same time improve your existing physique.

    STRONG
    - Newbies are strong and will keep getting stronger. That is if they don't compare themselves to the seasoned lifters. Noobs will develop their strength just by doing something physical (lifting, playing sports, being active). So obviously Crossfit can also develop your strength. The good thing is that Crossfit covers alot of aspects so you improve your lifting, cardio, endurance, work capacity, pain threshold etc. We can also improve these aspects of strength with other training discipline or sports. The only downside I see is that not everyone is looking to be a super soldier so most of the exercises should be replaced with more meaningful exercises or emphasize on the basics then throw the fun stuff after.

    -After the newbie years, we all plateau. Crossfit may help you strengthen your endurance and cardio at this point but not your lifts. It's simply not for strength gains. Some improve their lifts and get stronger still but that is because these guys know how to train and they have the experience/foundation. They usually have some PL, bodybuilding, sports training prior doing Crossfit. To improve strength, you need progression and careful planning. Sure you can progress with Crossfit but this is an individual thing I guess, we decide how much we put in the bar right? Careful planning is also an individual thing because you'll have to deviate from the WODs if you want to focus on your priorities. So if you're a guy looking to specifically improve your lifts, better find a systematic program. If on the other hand you're just looking to improve on something away from the usually gym stuff, Crossfit will help.

    WINNING
    - I'm not in the position to talk about winning because I'm just an average joe. I'd like to hear from my idols like Ray Lewis and those who've been there. As competitive as I am, I'm also practical. We are all competing against each other (direct/indirect) so in the world of lifting in general, improving your muscularity, aesthetic and strength will keep you competitive wherever you go, in the gym, in the field, stage, games, work, even just against your past and present self. If you improve these 3 things, it's always accompanied by hard work, discipline, sacrifice, consistency, work ethic etc. and that makes you a winner. Now if you decide to take it to the next level and compete against the best, you know you can do well :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    Here's some more articles from TNation. They have positive and negative articles and it would be best if we post the good and the bad so we can see both sides :)

    http://www.t-nation.com/training/in-defense-of-crossfit
    http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-apology

    @nrg500 thanks, for the vids. You can also post cool Crossfit vids if you want (like Rich Froning training). We can learn alot from those especially the oly lifts and heavy basics :)Dont forget to vote guys. thanks :)

    live&dieNATURAL

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