I've chosen a 5 day workout, focusing on one muscle group each day, with cardio and HIIT for 9 weeks. Also I plan to do a calorie deficit, taking maximum of 2050 calories a day.
From: 85 Kgs to 82.5 Kgs. in 21 days. At least nakuha ko yung weight loss goal ko. However, the body structure (yung love handles) is still not good. I plan to move to a new program. I'll try Starting Strength, and this time, strict diet, high protein and low fat. Any advise to further remove this? @Bane@Aestecniques@dimzon03@autumndylan@badass_vinch
I've chosen a 5 day workout, focusing on one muscle group each day, with cardio and HIIT for 9 weeks. Also I plan to do a calorie deficit, taking maximum of 2050 calories a day.
May link dyan sa article kung paano mag-compute ng macros at calorie . Take time to read it
Wag mo na ituloy yang high protein, low fat diet + HIIT + 5 days a week weighlifting + calorie deficit. That won't make you ripped and muscular. It will just leave you looking like a sick person.
The picture below is Christian Bale, the one who played as Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight
The one on the left is his physique in the movie American Psycho. The one one the right is his physique in the movie The Machinist
Ang goal mo yata ay yung physique sa left. Pero yung mga ginagawa o gagawin mo ay yung physique sa right ang kalalabasan
Ilang pull ups na ba ang kaya mo ? Mahina ka pa. There is no muscle to show off once you shed off the excess body fat
I'm not one of the strong guys here in PBB but here is what I can do for now with Pull Ups. Still not thinking of getting ripped. Nasa 25% body fat ako ngayon base sa mirror
Starting Strength...
5-day bro split...
Cardio and HIIT...
Make up your mind. No offense but I think you are reading way too much that's why you get contradicting ideas. I'll give you the big picture, mahirap magpaganda ng katawan i'll give you 3 years. By that time kung consistent ka medyo maayos na katawan mo nyan.
start from the basics lang bro. do not complicate things. ganyan din ako dati dami ko gusto gawin. dami ko gusto subukan GUSTO KO SABAY SABAY! para mabilis ang effect? kaso hindi ganun kadali un. in the long run maiintindihan mo what is really benificial to you. ok ung mga pinag sasasabi mo na iba kaso i doubt na naiinitndihan mo un ng fully. go to the gym, lift weights. lift heavy ass challenging weights., assess, go home and eat. repreat. kaya nga meron ung kasahiban na EAT LIFT REST REPEAT. ganun lang kasimple. keep it simple bro but consistent.
From: 85 Kgs to 82.5 Kgs. in 21 days. At least nakuha ko yung weight loss goal ko. However, the body structure (yung love handles) is still not good. I plan to move to a new program. I'll try Starting Strength, and this time, strict diet, high protein and low fat. Any advise to further remove this? @Bane@Aestecniques@dimzon03@autumndylan@badass_vinch
I've chosen a 5 day workout, focusing on one muscle group each day, with cardio and HIIT for 9 weeks. Also I plan to do a calorie deficit, taking maximum of 2050 calories a day.
May link dyan sa article kung paano mag-compute ng macros at calorie . Take time to read it
Wag mo na ituloy yang high protein, low fat diet + HIIT + 5 days a week weighlifting + calorie deficit. That won't make you ripped and muscular. It will just leave you looking like a sick person.
The picture below is Christian Bale, the one who played as Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight
The one on the left is his physique in the movie American Psycho. The one one the right is his physique in the movie The Machinist
Ang goal mo yata ay yung physique sa left. Pero yung mga ginagawa o gagawin mo ay yung physique sa right ang kalalabasan
Ilang pull ups na ba ang kaya mo ? Mahina ka pa. There is no muscle to show off once you shed off the excess body fat
I'm not one of the strong guys here in PBB but here is what I can do for now with Pull Ups. Still not thinking of getting ripped. Nasa 25% body fat ako ngayon base sa mirror
@nrg500, oo nga. Sa totoo lang, medyo confused ako sa gagawin ko ngayon. Kaya din siguro may inconsistency din ako when it comes to choosing the right program for me, as well as the right diet. I'll try to read more, before deciding on the program I'll do. Sa ngayon, I'm resting since may minor knee sprain ako due to basketball.
At ayun, namention mo yang body fat perc. na yan. currently nasa 22% naman ako as per last check.
Sa Pull ups, I can do 3 sets of 10, pero assisted. I tried doing full bodyweight (at 82.5 kgs), but I can last about 5-6, in 3 sets. Siguro the mindset of getting ripped immediately is too early sa ngayon.
Starting Strength...
5-day bro split...
Cardio and HIIT...
Make up your mind. No offense but I think you are reading way too much that's why you get contradicting ideas. I'll give you the big picture, mahirap magpaganda ng katawan i'll give you 3 years. By that time kung consistent ka medyo maayos na katawan mo nyan.
Its alright @badass_vinch. Yun nga, confused pa ako sa dami ng nababasa ko on how to get shredded. I agree. Consistency is the key.
start from the basics lang bro. do not complicate things. ganyan din ako dati dami ko gusto gawin. dami ko gusto subukan GUSTO KO SABAY SABAY! para mabilis ang effect? kaso hindi ganun kadali un. in the long run maiintindihan mo what is really benificial to you. ok ung mga pinag sasasabi mo na iba kaso i doubt na naiinitndihan mo un ng fully. go to the gym, lift weights. lift heavy ass challenging weights., assess, go home and eat. repreat. kaya nga meron ung kasahiban na EAT LIFT REST REPEAT. ganun lang kasimple. keep it simple bro but consistent.
@BANE, salamat. I guess simplicity is the key to sustenance. I'll do my part on that, read more and understand the effects. Then decide what will be good for me.
Warm Up: 15 mins, 2 mins walk, interval walk and run, 13 mins. 5/6, 10/11/12/13/14/14.5
Push Ups = 1 set x 15 reps
Push Up with Side Planks = 1 set x 5 reps per side
Pull Ups = 1 set x 12 reps
1. Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
60lbs x 15 reps
70lbs x 12 reps
80lbs x 10 reps
2. Chin Up
Level 12 x 15 reps
Level 11 x 12 reps
Level 10 x 10 reps
3. Bent Over Dumbbell Row
44lbs x 15 reps (two hands)
55lbs x 12 reps (two hands)
66lbs x 10 reps (two hands)
4. Machine Row
80lbs x 15 reps
90lbs x 12 reps
100lbs x 10 reps
5. Barbell Incline Press - Med Grip
66lbs x 15 reps
88lbs x 12 reps
99lbs x 10 reps
6. Incline Dumbbell Flyes
33lbs x 15 reps (two hands)
40lbs x 12 reps (two hands)
50lbs x 10 reps (two hands)
7. Dumbbell Shrugs
60lbs x 15 reps (two hands)
70lbs x 12 reps (two hands)
80lbs x 10 reps (two hands)
8. Back Hyperextensions
Bodyweight x 15 reps
Bodyweight + 11lbs x 12 reps
Bodyweight + 22lbs x 10 reps
@Aestecniques, improving ang strength ko so far. Physically, di pa masyadong aninag ang muscles, pero im going there. Ill post a flexed photo ko tomorrow. Di lang ako nakakuha ng picture kanina sa gym. Thanks sa follow up brad!
@Aestecniques, improving ang strength ko so far. Physically, di pa masyadong aninag ang muscles, pero im going there. Ill post a flexed photo ko tomorrow. Di lang ako nakakuha ng picture kanina sa gym. Thanks sa follow up brad!
Enjoy your workouts bro! Working on calorie deficit o surplus ka na?
@Aestecniques working on calorie deficit. So as much as I can, everyday ako nagwoworkout. Hirap sa umpisa ang calorie deficit, pero unti unti.Kahit paano pasok sa target calorie intake ko for the day, di pa bawas yung calorie burned sa exercise.
For 15 mins, HIIT = 1 min run (6), 1 min walk (10,11,12,13,14,14.5)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 20 reps x 88lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 90lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 40lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Lunges = 1 set x 15 reps/side x 30lbs/arm
10 mins, HIIT = 5 min walk (6), 5 min run (10)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 94lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 120lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 30lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 50lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
For 15 mins, HIIT = 1 min run (6), 1 min walk (10,11,12,13,14,14.5)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 20 reps x 88lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 90lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 40lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Lunges = 1 set x 15 reps/side x 30lbs/arm
10 mins, HIIT = 5 min walk (6), 5 min run (10)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 94lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 120lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 30lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 50lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
For 15 mins, HIIT = 1 min run (6), 1 min walk (10,11,12,13,14,14.5)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 20 reps x 88lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 90lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 40lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Lunges = 1 set x 15 reps/side x 30lbs/arm
10 mins, HIIT = 5 min walk (6), 5 min run (10)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 94lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 120lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 30lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 50lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
For 15 mins, HIIT = 1 min run (6), 1 min walk (10,11,12,13,14,14.5)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 20 reps x 88lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 90lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 40lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Lunges = 1 set x 15 reps/side x 30lbs/arm
10 mins, HIIT = 5 min walk (6), 5 min run (10)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 94lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 120lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 30lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 50lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
For 15 mins, HIIT = 1 min run (6), 1 min walk (10,11,12,13,14,14.5)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 20 reps x 88lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 90lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 40lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Lunges = 1 set x 15 reps/side x 30lbs/arm
10 mins, HIIT = 5 min walk (6), 5 min run (10)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 94lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 120lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 30lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 50lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Seriously, we already gave him advice on what he should do to reach his goals. He's still sticking with the light-weight high-rep training + lots of cardio. Maybe he read too much BS fitness magazines/blogs
Perhaps it's better if he fails and and learns from mistakes
@nrg500, @BANE Thank you for your concern as always, helping out newbies like me.
For now, I'm trying to change my program, which will be next week.
So for now, I'll stick to the old program before moving to the new strength program, to which I will follow what you guys advised. I'm sure that will help me reach my, first fat loss, then muscle building goal.
I'll be posting my program, hope you can share your insights... (even if I seem hardheaded)
@nrg500, @BANE Thank you for your concern as always, helping out newbies like me.
For now, I'm trying to change my program, which will be next week.
So for now, I'll stick to the old program before moving to the new strength program, to which I will follow what you guys advised. I'm sure that will help me reach my, first fat loss, then muscle building goal.
I'll be posting my program, hope you can share your insights... (even if I seem hardheaded)
ok lang yan bro, ganyan din ako dati at ngayon (at times) pero sooner or later, youll figure it out yourself. youll know what to do beleve me.. minsan kasi sa totoo lang, too good to be true ung mga advice ng mga tao, na parang ,"un na un?" "parang hindi lang un eh" "eto lang" pero sa totoo lang thats all you need. we sometimes neglect the basics/foundation and want to jump into the complex or advance system para nga naman mapabilis ang mga bagay bagay pero at the end of the day, youll see na babagsak ka padin sa basics. patience... bodybuilding is a marathon... kung makikita mo or mapapanuod mo mga nag cocompete na bodybuilders sa kahit anong category, ung mga advance na... hindi katulad ng boxer, mma fighter na pag ininterveiw, "how long did you train for this fight" sagot nila syempre "2-6 months" usually... ang bodybuidlers lagi ang sagot more or less 10 years.. so we are looking at ganun katagal bro. unlessyour genetically gifted and un-natty hehe
Comments
Keep us posted brah!
Ito yung post ko sa page 7 ng journal mo
http://pinoybodybuilding.com/Thread-The-21-Day-Fitness-and-Diet-Challenge?pid=137632#pid137632
May link dyan sa article kung paano mag-compute ng macros at calorie . Take time to read it
Wag mo na ituloy yang high protein, low fat diet + HIIT + 5 days a week weighlifting + calorie deficit. That won't make you ripped and muscular. It will just leave you looking like a sick person.
The picture below is Christian Bale, the one who played as Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight
The one on the left is his physique in the movie American Psycho. The one one the right is his physique in the movie The Machinist
Ang goal mo yata ay yung physique sa left. Pero yung mga ginagawa o gagawin mo ay yung physique sa right ang kalalabasan
Ilang pull ups na ba ang kaya mo ? Mahina ka pa. There is no muscle to show off once you shed off the excess body fat
I'm not one of the strong guys here in PBB but here is what I can do for now with Pull Ups. Still not thinking of getting ripped. Nasa 25% body fat ako ngayon base sa mirror
5-day bro split...
Cardio and HIIT...
Make up your mind. No offense but I think you are reading way too much that's why you get contradicting ideas. I'll give you the big picture, mahirap magpaganda ng katawan i'll give you 3 years. By that time kung consistent ka medyo maayos na katawan mo nyan.
"The Incredible Bulk" - part 1
Third World Gains
Wow Meron update basa mode na ako
@nrg500, oo nga. Sa totoo lang, medyo confused ako sa gagawin ko ngayon. Kaya din siguro may inconsistency din ako when it comes to choosing the right program for me, as well as the right diet. I'll try to read more, before deciding on the program I'll do. Sa ngayon, I'm resting since may minor knee sprain ako due to basketball.
At ayun, namention mo yang body fat perc. na yan. currently nasa 22% naman ako as per last check.
Sa Pull ups, I can do 3 sets of 10, pero assisted. I tried doing full bodyweight (at 82.5 kgs), but I can last about 5-6, in 3 sets. Siguro the mindset of getting ripped immediately is too early sa ngayon.
Its alright @badass_vinch. Yun nga, confused pa ako sa dami ng nababasa ko on how to get shredded. I agree. Consistency is the key.
@BANE, salamat. I guess simplicity is the key to sustenance. I'll do my part on that, read more and understand the effects. Then decide what will be good for me.
@nrg500, @BANE, @badass_vinch salamat sa insights nyo! Saludo ako sa inyo for helping us newbies!
http://pinoybodybuilding.com/blog/the-incredible-bulk-part-1/
kay @badass_vinch yan. haha
Can you show us your video of pull ups ?
You might be doing partial reps.
Warm Up:
Cardio Run, 1 min walk, 1 min run. = 12 mins, speed 10,12,13,14.
1. Flat Bench Press
88lbs x 10 reps
110lbs x 8 reps
132lbs x 6 reps
2. Rowing Machine
40lbs x 15 reps
80lbs x 15 reps
90lbs x 12 reps
100lbs x 10 reps
3. Standing Military Press
30lbs x 20 reps
50lbs x 15 reps
60lbs x 10 reps
60lbs x 10 reps (partial reps)
4. Barbell Curl
22lbs x 20 reps
33lbs x 15 reps
44lbs x 12 reps
5. Assisted Dips
Level 10 assist x 10 reps
Level 8 assist x 10 reps
Level 7 assist x 10 reps
Level 6 assist x 10 reps
Cool Down:
Cardio Run, 5 min walk, 5 min jog. = 10 mins, speed 6/9
Calorie Intake: 2,430.50
Prot: 128.10
Fat: 96.34
Carbs: 262.76
Warm Up:
Cardio Run, 1 min walk, 1 min run. = 12 mins, speed 10,11,12,13,14.
Chin-Ups = 1 set x 10 reps
Push Ups = 1 set x 10 reps
1. Wide Grip Barbell Standing Curl
33lbs x 15 reps
44lbs x 12 reps
55lbs x 10 reps
2. Dumbbell One Arm Tricep Extension
16.5lbs x 15 reps
20lbs x 12 reps
25lbs x 10 reps
3. Incline Dumbbell Curl
33lbs x 15 reps
44lbs x 12 reps
66lbs x 10 reps
4. Cable Arm Tricep Extension
Level 7 x 15 reps
Level 8 x 12 reps
Level 9 x 10 reps
5. Reverse Barbell Curl
22lbs x 15 reps
27.5lbs x 12 reps
33lbs x 10 reps
6. EZ Bar Skull Crusher
22lbs x 15 reps
33lbs x 12 reps
44lbs x 10 reps
7. Tricep Dumbbell Kickback
15lbs x 15 reps
16.5lbs x 12 reps
20lbs x 10 reps
8. Leg Press
200lbs x 15 reps
220lbs x 12 reps
240lbs x 10 reps
9. Stiff Legged Deadlift
88lbs x 15 reps
132lbs x 12 reps
132lbs x 10 reps
Cooldown: 5 mins walk, 5 mins slow run. 5/6-9
Calorie Intake: 2,327.46
Prot: 147.30
Fat: 89.34
Carbs: 233.55
Warm Up: 15 mins, 2 mins walk, interval walk and run, 13 mins. 5/6, 10/11/12/13/14/14.5
Push Ups = 1 set x 15 reps
Push Up with Side Planks = 1 set x 5 reps per side
Pull Ups = 1 set x 12 reps
1. Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
60lbs x 15 reps
70lbs x 12 reps
80lbs x 10 reps
2. Chin Up
Level 12 x 15 reps
Level 11 x 12 reps
Level 10 x 10 reps
3. Bent Over Dumbbell Row
44lbs x 15 reps (two hands)
55lbs x 12 reps (two hands)
66lbs x 10 reps (two hands)
4. Machine Row
80lbs x 15 reps
90lbs x 12 reps
100lbs x 10 reps
5. Barbell Incline Press - Med Grip
66lbs x 15 reps
88lbs x 12 reps
99lbs x 10 reps
6. Incline Dumbbell Flyes
33lbs x 15 reps (two hands)
40lbs x 12 reps (two hands)
50lbs x 10 reps (two hands)
7. Dumbbell Shrugs
60lbs x 15 reps (two hands)
70lbs x 12 reps (two hands)
80lbs x 10 reps (two hands)
8. Back Hyperextensions
Bodyweight x 15 reps
Bodyweight + 11lbs x 12 reps
Bodyweight + 22lbs x 10 reps
Enjoy your workouts bro! Working on calorie deficit o surplus ka na?
Rest day today. Recovery day!
Warm Up:
15 mins, 1 min walk, 1 min run = 10,11,12,13,14
Supine One Arm Overthrow = 1 set x 12 reps x 4lbs ball
Plank = 1 set x 45 secs
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs/arm
1 set x 12 reps x 30lbs/arm
1 set x 10 reps x 35lbs/arm
Side Lateral Raise
1 set x 15 reps x 15lbs/arm
1 set x 12 reps x 20lbs/arm
1 set x 10 reps x 25lbs/arm
Arnold Dumbbell Press
1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs/arm
1 set x 12 reps x 25lbs/arm
1 set x 10 reps x 30lbs/arm
Face Pull
1 set x 15 reps x bodyweight
1 set x 12 reps x bodyweight
1 set x 10 reps x bodyweight
Weighted Crunch
1 set x 15 reps x 5 lbs
1 set x 12 reps x 10 lbs
1 set x 10 reps x 10 lbs
Standing Calf Raises
1 set x 15 reps x 35 lbs/arm
1 set x 12 reps x 40 lbs /arm
1 set x 10 reps x 45 lbs/arm
5 mins walk, 5 mins run = 6/10
Calorie Intake: 2,710.60
Prot: 116.60
Fat: 117.80
Carbs: 296.00
No workout. Rested lang for the whole long weekend.
Full court basketball in the morning: 1 hour
For 15 mins, HIIT = 1 min run (6), 1 min walk (10,11,12,13,14,14.5)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 20 reps x 88lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 90lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 40lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 20lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Lunges = 1 set x 15 reps/side x 30lbs/arm
10 mins, HIIT = 5 min walk (6), 5 min run (10)
Flat Bench Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 94lbs
Machine Row = 1 set x 15 reps x 120lbs
Standing Dumbbell Press = 1 set x 15 reps x 30lbs
Barbell Curl = 1 set x 15 reps x 50lbs
Tricep Extensions = 1 set x 15 reps x 25lbs
Standing Military Press = 1 set x 10 reps x 54lbs
Calorie Intake: 2,624.30
Prot: 155.80
Fat: 113.50
Carbs: 244.90
Because that will make him ripped
Seriously, we already gave him advice on what he should do to reach his goals. He's still sticking with the light-weight high-rep training + lots of cardio. Maybe he read too much BS fitness magazines/blogs
Perhaps it's better if he fails and and learns from mistakes
For now, I'm trying to change my program, which will be next week.
So for now, I'll stick to the old program before moving to the new strength program, to which I will follow what you guys advised. I'm sure that will help me reach my, first fat loss, then muscle building goal.
I'll be posting my program, hope you can share your insights... (even if I seem hardheaded)
ok lang yan bro, ganyan din ako dati at ngayon (at times) pero sooner or later, youll figure it out yourself. youll know what to do beleve me.. minsan kasi sa totoo lang, too good to be true ung mga advice ng mga tao, na parang ,"un na un?" "parang hindi lang un eh" "eto lang" pero sa totoo lang thats all you need. we sometimes neglect the basics/foundation and want to jump into the complex or advance system para nga naman mapabilis ang mga bagay bagay pero at the end of the day, youll see na babagsak ka padin sa basics. patience... bodybuilding is a marathon... kung makikita mo or mapapanuod mo mga nag cocompete na bodybuilders sa kahit anong category, ung mga advance na... hindi katulad ng boxer, mma fighter na pag ininterveiw, "how long did you train for this fight" sagot nila syempre "2-6 months" usually... ang bodybuidlers lagi ang sagot more or less 10 years.. so we are looking at ganun katagal bro. unlessyour genetically gifted and un-natty hehe