When does diet stops and bulking begins?

I was over 260 lbs over 2 years ago, after diet and exersice I managed to drop by weight to 180 lbs in about 12 months. I have started lifting weights around a year ago, and saw some improvements in my body, even without losing any weight I was continuing to lose inches and gaining strength. Though lately I have noticed that I am having a difficult time progressing, a trainer from the gym adviced that maybe I need to stop dieting and instead start eating more to gain size which should also translate to more strength. My concern is I still have more to lose since I am still around 23% body fat. Should I maintain my diet and just lift the same weight? Or should I really start eating more so that I can start gaining more muscles? I am just afraid that if I start eating more that I start gaining fat again.

My long term goal is to bulk up and be around 15% body fat.

Comments

  • popoycantonpopoycanton Posts: 216C-Class
    what are your lifting stats?

    I would eat to support progression of lifts. For example stalling at 180 bench press, then maybe adding another 25g carbs will help. Small increments or go all out and eat 3k cals, both seems reasonable.
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    you have to choose between weightloss or strength gain if you feel that your gains are slowing down. you already got strong while losing weight in the past 12 months, you are a different person now so what worked for you last year might not give you the same results now. Dropping to 180lbs from 260lbs is an achievement, but 23% BF is still a serious problem bro. If I were you i will focus on dropping fat, probably until you reach manageable levels, around 16-18%? Then that would be a good time to rethink your goals weather to start bulking and improving your lifts. For now, try eating more but make sure you train more also. try out other training programs or try to change the intensity of your training. You can still make some strength gains here and there but dont expect too much. :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • miserymisery Posts: 160
    They said that you should start bulking when your body fat is already 12-15% then start cutting when your body is already 20%. Though pinoy bodybuilding suggests that bulk forever then cut when you already have decent mass. This has happened to me before when I asked the owner of the gym and he told me that i should not cut because i dont have that much muscles.
  • Emman1986Emman1986 Posts: 1,819B-Class
    just look at the mirror :) pag nakita mong di na kaaya aya o sabihin na nateng mas malaki kana muscle mass / fats, yun ang tamang oras para mag cuts. Same sa pag bulk, check mo salamin at wait mo saguten ka joke hihihi :)
  • Big DawgBig Dawg Posts: 645
    You've been lifting for only a year - you have MUCH more gains to come. Sure the gains come more slowly and is more difficult as you mention. But you can't expect to keep making them monstrous gains workout to workout as you have in the beginning - those are called 'noob gains', and come rather easily. As Vinch mentioned, I would agree with getting your bf lower - 23% is high. You will enjoy it more when you are leaner and can 'see' the muscles in action. Being still in the ealry stages of working out, you can still recomp your body while in maintenance mode regarding calories. Muscle weighs more than fat - thats the reason why you was able to keep losing inches and fat yet the scale remained the same. Congrats on what you have achieved already - losing 80lbs in a year is great dude! Up the intensity in the gym and remember this game requires persistence. Give it time and you will be where you want to be before you know it. :)
  • Just got measured for body fat, I am no longer at 23% am now at 18%, should instill continue with a calorie deficit on my diet?
  • Emman1986Emman1986 Posts: 1,819B-Class
    care to post your current picture? (no homo)

    para kasi sakin sir ikaw lang makakapagsabi kung mag bulk ka naba o hinde pa? pag nakita mo sa salamin na enough muscle mass then may definition pa rin na visible, ayn, pwede kana mag bulk
  • OlibOlib Posts: 74
    Emman1986 wrote:

    para kasi sakin sir ikaw lang makakapagsabi kung mag bulk ka naba o hinde pa? pag nakita mo sa salamin na enough muscle mass then may definition pa rin na visible, ayn, pwede kana mag bulk

    Deciding to bulk (or continuing to bulk) is based on subjective observation?
    Not putting you down, Emman.
    Sa kaso ko kasi, gusto ko magpabulk pa, pero pag tingin ko sa salamin (yuck! hehe) there's not enough muscle mass and no definition kasi mataas na bf% ko.
    23%, according to electronic scale.
    Thank you @rattrapante for starting this thread.
  • Emman1986Emman1986 Posts: 1,819B-Class
    para sa akin, oo :) 2nd time ko pa lang gagawen ang mag bulk simula ng nag join ako dito sa pbb at yung unang bulk ko eh mixed of clean and dirty hahha i gained alot kaso alam mo na fats madami din. ngayong cutting ako, pansin ko di na bumaba timbang ko from 80kgs naging 78 tapos 77 then now 79kgs ulit hehe pero cutting ako nyan ha. and i only based on the mirror at dun ako mag dedecide panong kain, training gagawen ko hihii sensya kung medyo magulo paliwanag ko

    tayo lang makakaalam sa sarli naten kung kelan dapat mag bulk o mag cuts :)
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    yan ang common problem ng majority of the fitness population. They look at "bulking" as the only way to gain weight, size, muscle mass then they look at "cutting" also as the only way to get cuts, lose weight, see muscle definitions. So lumalabas you could either bulk or cut, at wala na ibang pwede gawin to achieve a particular look. Ako kasi pag tumingin sa salamin, I'm not thinking of "i should bulk" , "i want to get ripped" and so on. I look at the things that i need to work on or improve. Example i want round delts, at my current situation i wont tell myself "should i bulk or cut?" I'll tell myself, how can i make my delts look round at 183lbs 14%BF, (RC issues taken into consideration also) :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • Emman1986Emman1986 Posts: 1,819B-Class
    yan ang common problem ng majority of the fitness population. They look at "bulking" as the only way to gain weight, size, muscle mass then they look at "cutting" also as the only way to get cuts, lose weight, see muscle definitions. So lumalabas you could either bulk or cut, at wala na ibang pwede gawin to achieve a particular look. Ako kasi pag tumingin sa salamin, I'm not thinking of "i should bulk" , "i want to get ripped" and so on. I look at the things that i need to work on or improve. Example i want round delts, at my current situation i wont tell myself "should i bulk or cut?" I'll tell myself, how can i make my delts look round at 183lbs 14%BF, (RC issues taken into consideration also) :)


    sir V, ikaw ang isang shreded till death parang yung si kane! hihihi tska ung isang bodybuilder dito na may kanya ng supp shop. di raw sya naniniwala sa bulking kung saan mag gain ka ng fats. sabi nya, ang way of bulking nya daw eh taasan ang protein intake nya tapos ung carbs at fats intake nya mas inaayos nya ang intake tapos train ng mas malupit lalo. in that way daw lalaki daw at mag gain ng weight pero ripped pa rin at shreded!

    at naalala ko, si @Florian yata ganun din ang paniniwala..
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    Emman1986 wrote:
    yan ang common problem ng majority of the fitness population. They look at "bulking" as the only way to gain weight, size, muscle mass then they look at "cutting" also as the only way to get cuts, lose weight, see muscle definitions. So lumalabas you could either bulk or cut, at wala na ibang pwede gawin to achieve a particular look. Ako kasi pag tumingin sa salamin, I'm not thinking of "i should bulk" , "i want to get ripped" and so on. I look at the things that i need to work on or improve. Example i want round delts, at my current situation i wont tell myself "should i bulk or cut?" I'll tell myself, how can i make my delts look round at 183lbs 14%BF, (RC issues taken into consideration also) :)


    sir V, ikaw ang isang shreded till death parang yung si kane! hihihi tska ung isang bodybuilder dito na may kanya ng supp shop. di raw sya naniniwala sa bulking kung saan mag gain ka ng fats. sabi nya, ang way of bulking nya daw eh taasan ang protein intake nya tapos ung carbs at fats intake nya mas inaayos nya ang intake tapos train ng mas malupit lalo. in that way daw lalaki daw at mag gain ng weight pero ripped pa rin at shreded!

    at naalala ko, si @Florian yata ganun din ang paniniwala..

    hindi ako shredded lagi bro, pag kelangan lang. At wala sa genes ko ang mag-gain ng muscle while staying very lean like most ecto's. basta i maintain a particular look na hindi out of shape. kumakain ako ng normal na pagkain pero shempre hindi ko na maalis sa sarili ko yung pag track ng calories at mataas na protein intake. kaya hindi ako tumataba e dahil sa style ng training ko na overtraining. Sa totoo lang wala nako masyado pakialam sa muscle gain or muscle loss, masaya ako magbuhat kahit minsan wala akong benefit na makukuha sa ibang ginagawa ko :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • Emman1986Emman1986 Posts: 1,819B-Class
    " masaya ako magbuhat kahit minsan wala akong benefit na makukuha sa ibang ginagawa ko "

    ang mahalga masaya tayo sa ginagawa naten kasi ung kasiyahan na un ay di mabibigay basta basta ng ibang tao! para sa pag mamahal sa bakal! hehhe
  • OlibOlib Posts: 74
    Emman1986 wrote:
    para sa akin, oo :) ... and i only based on the mirror at dun ako mag dedecide panong kain, training gagawen ko hihii sensya kung medyo magulo paliwanag ko

    tayo lang makakaalam sa sarli naten kung kelan dapat mag bulk o mag cuts :)

    Ok, gets ko, dahil kilala mo na ang katawan mo at alam mo na kung paano to magrespond sa training o diet. Yung self-knowledge na yan ang kasalukuyan ko pa ring inaalam. First time pa lang na consciously e dinadamihan ko talaga ang kain ko; malalaman rin after 6 months kung tama ba ginagawa ko.


    yan ang common problem ng majority of the fitness population. ... Ako kasi pag tumingin sa salamin ... I look at the things that i need to work on or improve. Example i want round delts .. I'll tell myself, how can i make my delts look round at 183lbs 14%BF, (RC issues taken into consideration also) :)

    Member of the majority here hehe. Vinch, ibang level ka na, kasi ang ginagawa mo na ay shaping na ng mga hard-earned muscles mo. Pero sa newbies na tulad ko, mas uunahin talaga dapat ang bulking, di ba? Or did you get through your initial years without it? Your perspective is much appreciated.
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,459A-Class
    Olib wrote:
    Emman1986 wrote:
    para sa akin, oo :) ... and i only based on the mirror at dun ako mag dedecide panong kain, training gagawen ko hihii sensya kung medyo magulo paliwanag ko

    tayo lang makakaalam sa sarli naten kung kelan dapat mag bulk o mag cuts :)

    Ok, gets ko, dahil kilala mo na ang katawan mo at alam mo na kung paano to magrespond sa training o diet. Yung self-knowledge na yan ang kasalukuyan ko pa ring inaalam. First time pa lang na consciously e dinadamihan ko talaga ang kain ko; malalaman rin after 6 months kung tama ba ginagawa ko.


    yan ang common problem ng majority of the fitness population. ... Ako kasi pag tumingin sa salamin ... I look at the things that i need to work on or improve. Example i want round delts .. I'll tell myself, how can i make my delts look round at 183lbs 14%BF, (RC issues taken into consideration also) :)

    Member of the majority here hehe. Vinch, ibang level ka na, kasi ang ginagawa mo na ay shaping na ng mga hard-earned muscles mo. Pero sa newbies na tulad ko, mas uunahin talaga dapat ang bulking, di ba? Or did you get through your initial years without it? Your perspective is much appreciated.

    Nung newbie ako, wala ako maalala na nagsasabi ng terms such as bulk and cut. mga tao dati talagang buhat at kain lang ang alam. eggs, kamote, taho at gatas ang sikat ng pagkain noon at walang mga program ang mga tao sa gym. Actually bago ako magstart magbuhat, nagpataba ako (skinny fat ang kinalabasan) hindi dahil alam ko magbulk, naisip ko lang lalo ako papayat pag naggym ako ng payat. Nung nagsimula nako magbuhat wala ako pakialam sa food kasi wala din naman ako pambili ng pagkain basta kakain ako as much as possible kahit sarsa lang at walang laman yung ulam ko. Wala pako idea sa diet noon dahil kahit magazine at internet hindi uso noon. wala dim youtube na pwede gayahin. So basically wala ako direction na sinusundan maliban sa nakikita kong progress sa sarili ko sa salamin at pagsikip ng damit ko. Kung ako tatanungin, technical man or broscience ang approach sa training at diet e may maayos pa din na progress as long as consistent ka as in wala ng balikan sa nakaraan :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • OlibOlib Posts: 74


    ... So basically wala ako direction na sinusundan maliban sa nakikita kong progress sa sarili ko sa salamin at pagsikip ng damit ko. Kung ako tatanungin, technical man or broscience ang approach sa training at diet e may maayos pa din na progress as long as consistent ka as in wala ng balikan sa nakaraan :)

    Parang lab song pala? :)
    Ok, just be consistent, magpoprogress din, let the chips fall where they may, don't repeat your mistakes.
  • Emman1986Emman1986 Posts: 1,819B-Class
    Olib wrote:
    Emman1986 wrote:
    para sa akin, oo :) ... and i only based on the mirror at dun ako mag dedecide panong kain, training gagawen ko hihii sensya kung medyo magulo paliwanag ko

    tayo lang makakaalam sa sarli naten kung kelan dapat mag bulk o mag cuts :)

    Ok, gets ko, dahil kilala mo na ang katawan mo at alam mo na kung paano to magrespond sa training o diet. Yung self-knowledge na yan ang kasalukuyan ko pa ring inaalam. First time pa lang na consciously e dinadamihan ko talaga ang kain ko; malalaman rin after 6 months kung tama ba ginagawa ko.


    yan ang common problem ng majority of the fitness population. ... Ako kasi pag tumingin sa salamin ... I look at the things that i need to work on or improve. Example i want round delts .. I'll tell myself, how can i make my delts look round at 183lbs 14%BF, (RC issues taken into consideration also) :)

    Member of the majority here hehe. Vinch, ibang level ka na, kasi ang ginagawa mo na ay shaping na ng mga hard-earned muscles mo. Pero sa newbies na tulad ko, mas uunahin talaga dapat ang bulking, di ba? Or did you get through your initial years without it? Your perspective is much appreciated.

    Nung newbie ako, wala ako maalala na nagsasabi ng terms such as bulk and cut. mga tao dati talagang buhat at kain lang ang alam. eggs, kamote, taho at gatas ang sikat ng pagkain noon at walang mga program ang mga tao sa gym. Actually bago ako magstart magbuhat, nagpataba ako (skinny fat ang kinalabasan) hindi dahil alam ko magbulk, naisip ko lang lalo ako papayat pag naggym ako ng payat. Nung nagsimula nako magbuhat wala ako pakialam sa food kasi wala din naman ako pambili ng pagkain basta kakain ako as much as possible kahit sarsa lang at walang laman yung ulam ko. Wala pako idea sa diet noon dahil kahit magazine at internet hindi uso noon. wala dim youtube na pwede gayahin. So basically wala ako direction na sinusundan maliban sa nakikita kong progress sa sarili ko sa salamin at pagsikip ng damit ko. Kung ako tatanungin, technical man or broscience ang approach sa training at diet e may maayos pa din na progress as long as consistent ka as in wala ng balikan sa nakaraan :)



    hahaha ganyang ganyan din ako nung bago ako sa pag babakal :) sarap alalahanin na kahit walang diet diet, kahit ano kainin tapos buhat lang ng buhat nag bago katawan ko. kaya nga isa sa idolo dito sa pbb sana maachieve ko rin at namen ang mga naachieved mo na sir V. keep inspiring us here sir V at wag ka mag sasawa magturo samen hihihi :P dedikasyon lang talaga samahan ng maraming sipag at tyaga at may magandang kalalabasan :)
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