Journey to a strong back

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  • nrg500nrg500 Posts: 1,235B-Class
    @ Big Dawg

    Here is my current training program which I started in the 2nd week of July 2013

    Day 1 - Monday

    Exercises performed in the following order

    Back Squat
    1st set - 5 reps
    2nd set - 6 reps but reduce load by ~10%
    3rd set - 7 reps but reduce load again by ~10%

    Flat Barbell Bench Press
    1st set - 6 reps
    2nd set - 7 reps but reduce load by ~10%
    3rd set - 8 reps but reduce load again by ~10%


    Day 2 - Friday or Saturday

    Conventional Dead Lift
    1st set - 5 reps
    2nd set - 6 reps but reduce load by ~10%
    3rd set - 7 reps but reduce load again by ~10%

    Push Press
    1st set - 5 reps
    2nd set - 6 reps but reduce load by ~10%
    3rd set - 7 reps but reduce load again by ~10%


    My diet

    On training days:

    1st meal (which is also the post workout meal)
    300 g of carbs from white rice (I can do 400 g if there is fruit cake or banana cake)
    protein is taken from the whole breast part of the chicken including the wings, skin is also eaten

    2nd meal
    200 g of carbs from white rice
    protein is taken from the remaining parts of the chicken (thighs and legs)


    On rest days

    1st meal
    1 whole grilled boneless milkfish (bangus)

    2nd meal
    1 whole roasted chicken including the skin
    1 or 2 bananas


    Starting in 2011, I take all my 1st working sets to failure, using 3 to 7 rep range. No week off. My only week off is when I get sick (probably because of weakened immune system due to CNS fatigue)

    When I started my current training program, I have cut the loads by ~15% and take the sets to failure anymore

    Sir, I'm thinking of taking a rest after this week. How many weeks will you recommend given that i hammered my CNS for more than a year without week offs ?

    What simple exercises can you recommend during my week off ? I don't want to be "idle" like sitting in the couch all day playing video games or watching movies

    Thanks
  • Big DawgBig Dawg Posts: 645
    OK, is there a REASON why you have been training and eating SOOO unconventional? Working out only 2 days per week? Eating only 2x per day? So few exercises and so low reps? I mean, I don't even know where to begin dude haha. Needs TOTAL overhaul. Easy to see why your gains have been minimal. Do you have a job/career that only allows you 2 days per week at the gym? I need answers to these questions bro before I can continue. :)
  • monching11monching11 Posts: 7,273B-Class
    Never too late to start again brah. What matters is standing up after we fall down!
  • @Big Dawg
    The program is power-lifting based. I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. It's just that he needs to eat more food and do accessory lifts in the 8-12 rep range to help him get stronger on the compounds.

    I have a dude who goes to my gym. Weighs 135 lbs, his Squat max is 330 lbs. Muscle mass does not equal strength tbh

    Edit: And for those unaware, Intermittent Fasting is an eating schedule. Caloric needs may still be hit, although at a smaller time frame.
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,466A-Class
    if you are doing the same exercises for the past days, months, years... don't expect something different to happen.

    i would really love to see you try something new bro, i know i said it already a couple of times. Just like in other sports, you don't get strong while you're playing. the things that you do outside the court translates to your performance :)


    problem #1 pattern overload
    problem #2 diminishing returns


    if you'll do other assitance exercises, im sure you'll get stronger on your beloved lifts and you'll be stronger overall not just on the big 3 :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • +1 to Vinch

    Accessory lifts need to be adressed
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,466A-Class
    @patrick: nothing's really wrong with PL or IF or whatever. but it's not for everyone. if it's not working for you, no matter how cool the name of the program is... it's useless :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • ^ Yep. Different things work for different people. If there was a definite program that worked the same for everyone, everybody would be doing the same thing lol
  • Big DawgBig Dawg Posts: 645
    @Big Dawg
    The program is power-lifting based. I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. It's just that he needs to eat more food and do accessory lifts in the 8-12 rep range to help him get stronger on the compounds.

    I have a dude who goes to my gym. Weighs 135 lbs, his Squat max is 330 lbs. Muscle mass does not equal strength tbh

    Edit: And for those unaware, Intermittent Fasting is an eating schedule. Caloric needs may still be hit, although at a smaller time frame.

    Obviously it's based for pl. However, he will gain alot more with a more conventional routine. Do you think you gain mass from getting stronger on only those 4 exercises alone? Of course not. Most in pl refer to other exercises out of the big 3 as accessory lifts, but those other lifts, pullups, dips, bb rows, etc pack on alot of size also. Regarding his diet and IF, why the need to go so unorthodox when decades of more conventional eating patterns are tried and proven haha? It appears so many like to try to reinvent the wheel these days. Keep in mind there is a huge difference in addressing a problem of a n00b and a vet - in NO way should he be hitting a "wall" per se at his stage of development.

    Btw I am missing something about all this pl talk and pl lifts - I mean I didn't realize his primary goal was to be a powerlifter. I thought he wanted to add more muscle. Quite a difference, as you already alluded to that a guy can get much stronger and not gain much muscle if he trains specifically for that. However, with MOST, if they get stronger for REPS, ie, 8-10, they will get much bigger. Been there, done that young blood. ;)
    @patrick: nothing's really wrong with PL or IF or whatever. but it's not for everyone. if it's not working for you, no matter how cool the name of the program is... it's useless :)

    Exactly! It all depends on ones goal. To many n00bs these days Google shit and find the latest fad and think it's magic haha. :p
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,466A-Class
    Thank you very much Big Dawg! :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • monching11monching11 Posts: 7,273B-Class
    It might seem offensive reading sir big dawg and vinch's posts but there is truth to them. Esp the 5lb gain in 5 years.
  • Big DawgBig Dawg Posts: 645
    monching11 wrote:
    It might seem offensive reading sir big dawg and vinch's posts but there is truth to them. Esp the 5lb gain in 5 years.

    I sure hope I don't come off as offensive. I'm just trying to help the guy out. I mean it's obvious it hasn't been working - as he is aware. I mean on the countless other bb boards I have posted on over the many years has been in USA, and I just do the same here as I would there - speak the truth without sugar coating it. Sorry if you see that as offensive dude.
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,466A-Class
    I dont mean to offend anyone but i think its a good exchange of opinion especially since there are a lot of questions from newbies lately regarding training and diet. Most of which were confusions from broscience, actual facts and myths :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • Oh slr Filipino homework lol

    I hope my post didn't come off as disrespectful to Big Dawg, to be clear. Although to be fair, his goal isn't to gain muscle mass. I've always been an advocate for 8-12 reps for hypertrophy.

    Let me quote his goals: 'short term: dead lift 2x of body weight / long term: 165 lbs @ 12% body fat'
  • monching11monching11 Posts: 7,273B-Class
    Big Dawg wrote:
    monching11 wrote:
    It might seem offensive reading sir big dawg and vinch's posts but there is truth to them. Esp the 5lb gain in 5 years.

    I sure hope I don't come off as offensive. I'm just trying to help the guy out. I mean it's obvious it hasn't been working - as he is aware. I mean on the countless other bb boards I have posted on over the many years has been in USA, and I just do the same here as I would there - speak the truth without sugar coating it. Sorry if you see that as offensive dude.

    I was not offended by your post sir. What i meant was that it was very clear that something was wrong in what he was doing given the fact that he had gained so little over a long period of training.

    No offense taken sir and id like to be told the truth to have my eyes opened than being blinded by myself
  • riddlerriddler Posts: 1,018B-Class
    I'll try to chime in with the discussion.

    I virtually see nothing wrong with Intermittent Fasting coupled with a good strength training program. It worked for a lot of guys, at least from what I see on the INTERNET.

    The biggest question you have to ask yourself is, IS IT RIGHT FOR ME? Yes? No? Maybe?

    If you don't know the answer to that question then I guess you have to look back to what you have been doing all these years. Did I achieve my goal using this approach? Have I gotten close or was I getting far away from my goal?

    Listen to the guys here especially the more experienced one. Heed their advice and I'm sure you'll get back on track faster than you can imagine. Learning is EASY, UNLEARNING what you know is TOUGH. Been there, done that.

    That's all.
  • lettuce be real tea for a moment tho: his goal is to deadlift 2x his bw, not to acquire a nice physique. We might be barking up the wrong tree here fellas -_-

    if said person's big 3 continues to get stronger over an extended period of time, he's doing pretty well for his personal goals tbh
  • badass_vinchbadass_vinch Posts: 4,466A-Class
    nrg and I have already discussed about some of his issues in my journal so i have nothing more to add. I've been stressing the same thing over again. hehehe but i hope he could bounce back this time :)

    live&dieNATURAL

  • Big DawgBig Dawg Posts: 645
    nrg hit me up in PM bro regarding a routine to try to help hit your goals if you need it. :)
  • nrg500nrg500 Posts: 1,235B-Class
    @ Big Dawg / badass vinch

    I am taking my graduate studies right now that is why I am only able to train twice a week

    Here is my schedule

    Sunday - work: 9am to 10pm
    Monday - weight training: 9am to 10am / work: 1pm to 10pm
    Tuesday - work: 7am to 4pm
    Wednesday - work: 7am to 4pm
    Thursday - work: 7am to 4pm / school: 6pm to 9pm
    Friday - (REST DAY from work) weight training: 10am to 11am / school: 6pm to 9pm /
    Saturday - (REST DAY from work)

    Ok, my big problem is the night sleep on Monday. I only get 5 to 6 hours of sleep because I have to wake up early in the morning. I have thought of working out on Wednesday but I have a hard time recovering the lack of sleep from Monday and I have feel sluggish on Tuesday up to Wednesday. I can only recover the sleep on Thursday night because I can wake up whatever time I like in the following day because it's my rest day.

    Also, the sleeplessness problem (due to CNS fatigue, haven't taken a "real" week off for years) is still not completely gone. Last night, I got to bed at 8:30pm but I think I was only able to sleep around 10:30pm

    While the deload I started in the 2nd week of July improved how I feel during and after workouts, I still have this kind of feeling that I need more rest.

    Do you guys think I should take a month off training ? Is that too long or just right given my current condition ?

    Another question is about sleeplessness. Did you encounter sleep problems due to overtraining or CNS fatigue ? I just like to confirm what I have read on the internet since you guys have more than 10 years of experience in weight lifting.


    For intermittent fasting, I did it not because it's the "in thing" right now nor because it's popular. I practice it because it makes life easier for me. I'm not tied to the clock anymore having to think about eating unsatisfying small meals every 2 to 3 hours. With intermittent fasting, I was able to eat big and satisfying meals. It has also made fat loss possible for me without doing long and boring cardio (stationary bike, treadmill, etc).

    For training, what assistance exercises could you recommend. I am already doing chin ups. For the dips, I can't do it in the gym where I workout. They have a dip machine (Ensayo) with adjustable handles. The narrow adjustment is too narrow, and the wide adjustment is too wide causing a weird feeling on my shoulders

    I'm not offended with the things you said. It's better that you guys are honest and frank

    Thanks for the time and effort in helping me
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